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Fantasy » alt.fan.pratchett » [I] Self-Esteem
| [I] Self-Esteem [message #273401] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 04:23 |
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What's the function of self-esteem?
1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
2. Have you ever given advice about the subject to anyone, and it seemed to
work?
Dies it matter, can it be fundamentally altered, etc.
--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students,
AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion & AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED
"If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to be a horrible
warning." C. Aird, _His Burial Too_
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273406 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 04:58 |
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On 2006-05-22 21:23:37 -0500, "Anastasia" <house_damodred [at] yahoo.com> said:
> What's the function of self-esteem?
>
> 1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
>
> 2. Have you ever given advice about the subject to anyone, and it
> seemed to work?
>
> Dies it matter, can it be fundamentally altered, etc.
No way am I going to post on that topic on Usenet or on the Web.
--
My computer is so fast it can execute an infinite loop in 3 seconds.
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273415 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 05:51 |
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Minä suojelen sinua kaikelta, mitä ikinä keksitkin sanoa, Anastasia:
> What's the function of self-esteem?
> 1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
> 2. Have you ever given advice about the subject to anyone, and it seemed to
> work?
> Dies it matter, can it be fundamentally altered, etc.
The basic issues:
You have to judge yourself by your own standards, not somebody
else's.
Your standards have to be sufficiently high to feel worthy,
but also reachable.
I know that it's possible, but it's tough.
rich
--
-to reply, it's hot not warm
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
\ Rich Hammett http://home.hiwaay.net/~rhammett
/ The Bill Clinton of RSFC
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273418 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 06:10 |
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Anastasia wrote:
> What's the function of self-esteem?
It helps a person's false self-confidence, giving them the impression
that they are not idiots, so they can invade other countries and kill
hundreds of thousands of strangers in the name of democracy.
Oops, sorry.
> 1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
Me, for one. I had low self-esteem as a result of being the victim of
choice of every atavistic troglodyte in my school. That all changed when
I had my epiphany (or it might have been when I got the really big pistol).
> 2. Have you ever given advice about the subject to anyone, and it seemed to
> work?
Sometimes it has, but usually it's better to provide tests that *show*
the subject that he/she has validity and value and worth than to *tell*
them.
> Does it matter, can it be fundamentally altered, etc.
Matters a lot, in my currently assailed opinion.
The most radical and beneficial changes I've ever seen in this area were
accomplished during the est training.
I have occasionally seen this sort of positive change in people just
from reading the right books about the training, like "The Book of Est"
by Luke Rhinehart, which often sells for over $100 these days.
-Rocky
--
O'Toole's Corollary: Murphy was an optimist.
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273425 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 07:20 |
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In article <Jmucg.809$Sf2.658 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
"Anastasia" <house_damodred [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
> What's the function of self-esteem?
It makes it a lot easier to get a job or complete a project.
>
> 1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
Yeah, pretty much.
>
> 2. Have you ever given advice about the subject to anyone, and it seemed to
> work?
>
Advice can't change it, I don't think, because:
The only person who really has any control over your self esteem is you.
Sort-of.
> Dies it matter, can it be fundamentally altered, etc.
I think it does, because if you always sell yourself short, you're going
to let others do the same. You'll accept low pay because you don't think
your work merits any more, for one example.
I said it's under your control 'sort-of' because personally, I found
recognition of my skills by others to be something of a key. Winning
things at the Discworld Con masquerade and other events made me realise
that maybe my sewing *was* good enough, even if I am a bit of a bodger.
Being twice awarded MVP status[1] by microsoft made me realise that I do
really know my stuff with XP embedded.
The recognition of others can only go so far, though. It's all too easy
to convince yourself that their opinion doesn't matter, because after
all, you've spent years being told that others' opinions don't matter.
The point is that's not the whole story - others opinions don't matter
unless they're positive.
Another thing is coming to terms with not having to be the *best* at
things. Only one person can be the best at anything, but plenty of
people can be really good at it. Really good is good enough. As Terry
has pointed out, being the best is a lot more work than just being
really good, because you have to be the best all the time.
So, what if you don't think you're good at anything? Well, what do you
enjoy doing? It's easy enough to get better at it, generally. Take a
course, or just get a bit more practice.
Not too keen on doing anything as public as getting up on stage at the
con? Well, there's plenty of ways to do things anonymously on the
internet. Posting to Livejournal communities under a second account, for
example. A lot of the creative communities there are very supportive
towards those who're just getting started and want advice from the more
experienced.
[1] Not to be confused with MCP, MVP stands for Most Valuable
Professional. There's a quantity of blather about it at
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273433 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 07:48 |
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René wrote:
> On 2006-05-22 21:23:37 -0500, "Anastasia"
> <house_damodred [at] yahoo.com> said:
>> What's the function of self-esteem?
>>
>> 1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
>>
>> 2. Have you ever given advice about the subject to anyone, and it
>> seemed to work?
>>
>> Dies it matter, can it be fundamentally altered, etc.
>
>
> No way am I going to post on that topic on Usenet or on the Web.
Then how about a picture of your bellybutton?
I have the cult film thread, the bellybutton pix thread, and I was trying
for a meaningful but not highly vitriolic thread. :-)
--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED "If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning." C. Aird, _His Burial Too_
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273440 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 07:54 |
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In article <Jmucg.809$Sf2.658 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
"Anastasia" <house_damodred [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
[...]
Being a bit posh today, aren't we miss? Or are you just channelling Dan
Dare's rocketship?
Cat.
--
Jazz-Loving Soul Mate and Tolerable Frog to CCA
"Leaping lizards, Digby! The old girl's turned into a cute blonde English
professor!"
"Lummee Colonel Dan, 'ow are we goin' t' get 'ome now?"
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273446 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 08:26 |
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The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:
> In article <Jmucg.809$Sf2.658 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> "Anastasia" <house_damodred [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
> [...]
>
> Being a bit posh today, aren't we miss? Or are you just channelling
> Dan Dare's rocketship?
Lesley talked me into changing it. And boy, did it take persuasion. She wore
me down. She's relentless!
--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED "If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning." C. Aird, _His Burial Too_
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273451 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 09:56 |
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Anastasia wrote:
> The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:
>> Being a bit posh today, aren't we miss? Or are you just channelling
>> Dan Dare's rocketship?
>
> Lesley talked me into changing it. And boy, did it take persuasion. She wore
> me down. She's relentless!
It seems incomplete, somehow. There's something missing. I think it's
a title: try adding the word "Empress" before it and see if that helps.
Adrian.
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273465 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 11:20 |
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On Tue, 23 May 2006 02:23:37 GMT, "Anastasia" <house_damodred [at] yahoo.com>
wrote:
>What's the function of self-esteem?
Probably something nasty requiring tensor calculus.
>1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
Yup!
>2. Have you ever given advice about the subject to anyone, and it seemed to
>work?
Never got around to finding out the result, tbh.
>Dies it matter, can it be fundamentally altered, etc.
It can have an effect, and yes it can be altered.
-SteveD
--
I'm brilliant; you're brilliant; let's take over the world together.
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273474 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 11:31 |
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Anastasia wrote:
> The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:
>> In article <Jmucg.809$Sf2.658 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
>> "Anastasia" <house_damodred [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
>> [...]
>>
>> Being a bit posh today, aren't we miss? Or are you just channelling
>> Dan Dare's rocketship?
>
>
> Lesley talked me into changing it. And boy, did it take persuasion. She wore
> me down. She's relentless!
>
May I say Mistress Doctor Anastasia ma'am, I'm very glad you decided to.
You should be whoever you decide to be. You do know that I am your
most obedient servant, no matter what name you choose.
n
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273487 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 12:38 |
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From the Collected Witterings of Anastasia, volume 23:
> What's the function of self-esteem?
>
> 1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
I don't have low self esteem, but if I did, I'd probably deserve it.
--
If life gives you lemmings, jump off a cliff.
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273495 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 13:07 |
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Anastasia wrote:
> 1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
I've had low self-esteem for most of my life. About the only time I
can remember it going up a notch in recent years was when I had my book
published, and that didn't last very long.
> can it be fundamentally altered
Hmmm...I believe it can be altered in small ways, but whether it's
permanent or temporary alteration depends on the circumstances, and on
the person.
I like the new name, by the way! :-)
CCA
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273496 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 13:09 |
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On Tue, 23 May 2006 02:23:37 GMT, "Anastasia"
<house_damodred [at] yahoo.com> jotted down:
>What's the function of self-esteem?
Hah! And you expect and answer in these measly two
centimetres of space?
Seriously though, I don't think it has a function in the
sense that it's been designed to solve a problem. Good self
esteem does allow you to do a lot of things that low self
esteem doesn't though.
It allows you to follow your own wishes, regardless of what
people around you may feel about it. It allows you to value
yourself and your contributions to the world. It makes
getting a job easier. It lets you stand up for yourself.
>1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
Probably. I've changed mine in some ways - I don't think you
have _one_ self esteem...you have issues. About some things
you can have very high self esteem while still having very
low about others. Part of growing as a person is learning to
trust and value yourself in new areas, where you haven't
before. I'm still doing that, and I don't think you ever
finish.
>2. Have you ever given advice about the subject to anyone, and it seemed to
>work?
No.
The trouble with self esteem is that it means trusting
_your_ _own_ opinion. When you tell someone that they should
trust themselves because they are worth it, what happens is
that they trust _you_, still not themselves. You can tell
someone to disregard the opinion of a negative influence,
but all you're doing s replacing it with your own.
Helping someone get better self esteem is probably a very
long and difficult process that you have to go about in a
roundabout way, allowing the person to safely discover their
own self worth.
--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
http://tale.cunobaros.com/
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273521 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 14:44 |
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on 23/05/2006 03:23 Anastasia said the following:
> What's the function of self-esteem?
It's part of an individual's calculation of self-worth which, in turn,
allows them to balance their needs against the needs of others.
> 1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
Yes and yes. I'd imagine it happens every day - as does the reverse process.
> 2. Have you ever given advice about the subject to anyone, and it seemed to
> work?
Yes but I didn't think to measure any result. Nor would I particularly
want to.
> Dies it matter,
I think it does as it's part of trying to live a balanced life within
society. And being happy with the result.
> can it be fundamentally altered
Yes although it's probably a slow, subtle, proces. No sudden overnight
changes.
> etc.
Dunno about an 'etc' though. That could be tricky...
esmi
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273528 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 15:09 |
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Anastasia <house_damodred [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
> What's the function of self-esteem?
A poor man's substitute for esteem.
> 1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
You're pre-supposing that it is something that shouldn't be low.
Regards,
--
*Art
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273530 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 15:56 |
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Extragalactic Empress Anastasia wrote:
> What's the function of self-esteem?
> 1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
> 2. Have you ever given advice about the subject to anyone, and it seemed to
> work?
> Dies it matter, can it be fundamentally altered, etc.
This would be sooooo easy to turn into a religion thread, because one
function of a religion may be to offer people an alternative - and, on
the whole, healther - measure of self worth, with the weakness of
possibly being built on a false premise. But we won't go there.
Personally, I would very much like to feel more hope for the future,
which is intertwined with confidence in my own ability and means to
make something worthwhile of my life. I don't have much of that, in
fact I have a rather debilitating absence of it (somewhat like Vimes
in _Night Watch_ before he gets the cigar case back: not sure if the
future exists). I know I have a few small talents but they're mostly
useless and I lack a social network in which to develop them.
Good friends *do* help, I find. If there are people who find me to be
worth something, that's nice to know. <gently nuzzles behind the
empress's left ear with snout, as though expressing gratitude for
something> But good friends can only help up to a point.
Adrian.
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273535 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 16:15 |
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On 2006-05-23 00:48:57 -0500, "Anastasia" <house_damodred [at] yahoo.com> said:
> René wrote:
>> On 2006-05-22 21:23:37 -0500, "Anastasia"
>> <house_damodred [at] yahoo.com> said:
>>> What's the function of self-esteem?
>>>
>>> 1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
>>>
>>> 2. Have you ever given advice about the subject to anyone, and it
>>> seemed to work?
>>>
>>> Dies it matter, can it be fundamentally altered, etc.
>>
>>
>> No way am I going to post on that topic on Usenet or on the Web.
>
> Then how about a picture of your bellybutton?
Yeah, and we all can see the probably reactions: Oh noes! Another
asshole post by René!
> I have the cult film thread, the bellybutton pix thread, and I was
> trying for a meaningful but not highly vitriolic thread. :-)
What I don't quite understand is how little self-esteem some posters
seem to have, what with their utter inability to grasp the idea that
others might be making fun of themselves.
Hmmmm. why is that dog licking the door...? Huh, what? Nevermind
--
And if there's going to be a "Ride the President, $5" line, I'd prefer
it consist of giggly interns than smirking oil company representatives.
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273550 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 17:53 |
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Anastasia wrote:
> What's the function of self-esteem?
To tell us where we are in the pecking order.
> 1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
Yes.
> 2. Have you ever given advice about the subject to anyone, and it
> seemed to work?
Yes and yes. Or rather yes and no, and no and yes. I've given advice
on self-esteem and how to improve it, and that hasn't worked. I've also
asked questions and encouraged thought and introspection, and that has
helped people find better self-esteem.
It's like freedom. It can't be given, only taken.
It's a subject I've been blogging around the edges of, but I need to get
down and translate more of those articles.
Orjan
--
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
http://tale.cunobaros.com/
Fiction, Thoughts and Software
http://www.cunobaros.com/
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273577 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 20:49 |
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In article <1Wxcg.3976$921.1974 [at] newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
"Anastasia" <house_damodred [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:
>> In article <Jmucg.809$Sf2.658 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
>> "Anastasia" <house_damodred [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
>> [...]
>>
>> Being a bit posh today, aren't we miss? Or are you just channelling
>> Dan Dare's rocketship?
>
>
>Lesley talked me into changing it. And boy, did it take persuasion. She wore
>me down. She's relentless!
No, it's good. I like it.
As for low self esteem, I'm afraid I've always had it and probably always
will. For me it's something to work around rather than fight against.
Cat.
--
Jazz-Loving Soul Mate and Tolerable Frog to CCA
"I don't wanna explode!"
Jayne Cobb - Serenity
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273591 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 21:25 |
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"Anastasia" <house_damodred [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
> What's the function of self-esteem?
If I knew that...
> 1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
No. Learned to live with it, learned to cover it up, learned to
compensate by considering the parts of me I do esteem more highly.
> 2. Have you ever given advice about the subject to anyone, and it seemed to
> work?
Erm... hard to say.
> Dies it matter, can it be fundamentally altered, etc.
Yes, and not IME. But it may be alterable enough.
Richard
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273596 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 22:04 |
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On Tue, 23 May 2006 02:23:37 GMT, "Anastasia"
<house_damodred [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>What's the function of self-esteem?
>1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
Would you believe I got over it? ;-)
>2. Have you ever given advice about the subject to anyone, and it seemed to
>work?
More or less... the main points are:
- don't judge yourself in ways that you don't judge others.
- whenever possible, avoid judging others entirely, it avoids having
to judge yourself
- life is not a tragedy, you don't need to be the hero(ine)
- you _know_ you've always wanted to be a comedian!
- people are _not_ judging you continuously
- those who _do_ judge you can mostly be ignored, as they usually
refuse to be judged in return
And more than anything enjoy your life to the fullest: remember that
the only thing that prevents tomorrow from being better than today is
that it's _quite_ hard to improve perfection. As they say, always look
at the brigth si-ide of life, tadum, tadum,tadum,tadum
>Does it matter, can it be fundamentally altered, etc.
It doesn't, it can and the only detrimental side-effect is that you
may _not_ like pink fluffy clouds and gorgeous sunsets ;-)
FiX
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273602 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 22:25 |
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In article <Jmucg.809$Sf2.658 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
house_damodred [at] yahoo.com says...
> What's the function of self-esteem?
It is difficult to imagine anyone so unconscious of themselves that they
do not have a self-image. Central to most peoples thinking is the
concept if "I", of oneself (or so they say, but I can only speak
knowledgeably for myself). Most people also have an image of other
people in the same way (Autistic/Asbergers perhaps excepted). So you
must have an idea how the "I" you know compares with the "Others" out
there - a mesurement of you "I" stacks up against "Them".
Like any measuring system, things work best when the system accurately
measures the relationships between the things it is comparing. But here
we have a difficult problem: the way in which we see "I" is
fundamentally different from the way in which we see "Other". So it is
very difficult to get an accurate measure of one's standing compared to
others.
And that causes problems, whether the error is to overvalue "I" compared
to "Other" (arrogance, high self esteem) or to undervalue (low self
esteem).
> 1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
Within a limited context, I have improved my self-esteem. Buth there are
many ways in which you measure yourself against others, and you can be
out high in one area (say, physical beauty i.e. vanity) while being low
in others (say, intelligence). People can adopt the Dumb Blonde or
Stupid Hunk personality becasue that plays to the areas in which they
have high self esteem and allows them to pretend that the areas in which
they feel of little value don't matter.
> 2. Have you ever given advice about the subject to anyone, and it seemed to
> work?
You cannot say "Hey, get some self esteem". It doesn't work to talk
about it directly. All you can do is show someone who values themselves
low that they actually are better than they think they are, and are
valued by others more than they were aware. The teachers at my school
spend a *lot* of time trying to give the children more self esteem.
> Dies it matter, can it be fundamentally altered, etc.
It matters that people's self esteem is *right*. People undervaluing
themselves should be talked up, helped to see themselves in a better
light. Equally, people overvaluing themselves should be talked down.
Because of the differring viewpoints of "I" and "Other", we are aware of
all our faults in a way that we often manage to conceal from "Them". So
underval;uation tends to be more common than overvaluation - but far
from overwhelmingly so.
Can it be changed? Yes. But, like anything, the longer you have been
doing something one way the harder it is to do it another. Most people
with low self-esteem have built that habit up from childhood. And a
habit that has lasted more than 80% of your life, and particularly the
formative years, is damned hard to break.
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273603 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 22:25 |
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In article <e4v1ib$fkg$1 [at] tree.broomstick.com>, art [at] broomstick.com
says...
> Anastasia <house_damodred [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
> > What's the function of self-esteem?
>
> A poor man's substitute for esteem.
>
> > 1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
>
> You're pre-supposing that it is something that shouldn't be low.
In the context, that is almost tautologous. If you talk about low tyre
pressure, you are talking relative to standard tyre pressure, not
relative to the pressure on the Moon or at the bottom of the Pacific,
compared to which it either enormous or negligible.
Low self-esteem is lower than "it ought to be". Of course, that is a
challenging question in itself. But I can off the cuff think of only
two: the strawman of "some arbitrary level of self esteem that everybody
ought to have", "an appropriate valuation of yourself compared to the
bulk of humanity".
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273625 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 22:50 |
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Arthur Hagen art [at] broomstick.com wrote in
<e4v1ib$fkg$1 [at] tree.broomstick.com>:
> Anastasia <house_damodred [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
> > What's the function of self-esteem?
>
> A poor man's substitute for esteem.
>
> > 1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
>
> You're pre-supposing that it is something that shouldn't be low.
>
It shouldn't. It should be accurate.
The exercise I was given by the first brain wrangler I saw was to try to
notice when I was making an assumption about myself, and checking whether
the assumption was correct.
--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
"live fast, die only if strictly necessary"
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273628 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 23:06 |
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Anastasia wrote:
> What's the function of self-esteem?
To stop you from looking like an arrogant and stupid t*sser!
> 1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
I think so. I think I had low self-esteem, and I think it's not as low
now as it used to be.
Sometimes low self-esteem can be caused by negative circumstances -
you go a long time without a boy/girl/otherfriend, you can't get a
job, you think you look the wrong shape, etc... and if that is the
case, often removing the bit you don't like - ie, by getting a date,
getting a new job, going on a diet and taking exercise, you can
dramatically improve your s-e.
But not always. Sometimes you subconsciously have that as a cover, and
the real reason for l-s-e is deeper and harder to shift.
Disclaimer - I have no psychological training whatsoever, and am known
by many people to be ever-so-slightly utterly weird myself...
--
Stevie D
\\\\\ ///// Bringing dating agencies to the
\\\\\\\__X__/////// common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs"
___\\\\\\\'/ \'///////_____________________________________________
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273647 ] |
Mi, 24 Mai 2006 00:32 |
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"esmi" <esmi [at] lspace.org> wrote in message news:e4v133$225e$1 [at] mud.stack.nl...
> on 23/05/2006 03:23 Anastasia said the following:
>> What's the function of self-esteem?
>
> It's part of an individual's calculation of self-worth which, in turn,
> allows them to balance their needs against the needs of others.
>
I sometimes wonder if too high self esteem or self esteem not grounded in a
realistic assesment of the worth of one's time/opinions/relative importance
could in fact be almost as bad a thing as low self esteem.
It is important to respect oneself and accept that one has as much right as
anyone else to being say paid properly or listened to or obeyed if that is
your place in some societal hierarchy_but_ someone with a self esteem which
is falsely high would not be doing anyone any favours, even themselves. They
would value their own, possibly flawed judgement over someone else's just
because they esteem their own worth too high etc
Too high self esteem leads to arrogance and unilateral actions, too low to
self abasement and doormattery. I think it is important to have a real world
yardstick for some measurements. If for instance you're a musician and
*nobody* ever likes anything you do, but you think you're great, your high
self esteem is not serving you. On the other hand if your self esteem is
low, you could be very talented and convinced you are no good, you would
sacrifice your art to anyone elses whim. Self esteem to some extent is an
index of
self(ish/less)ness. To function as a member of society, you need tools to
decide when you put yourself first, and when you defer to others.
Interesting question
Louise
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273654 ] |
Mi, 24 Mai 2006 01:04 |
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Anastasia wrote:
> What's the function of self-esteem?
It's a means of judging your place in the hierarchy. Even monkeys do it.
The problem with humans are that we have too many hierarchies we try to
fit into. We are often too critical of ourself, probably because we know
every little bit that's not up to *our* ideal standard.
What parts we want too change vary wildly, but most of us has
*something* we're not too satisfied with.
>
> 1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
Yes. But it may come creeping back from time to time. But if you're
aware of what points that's likely to crop up, you can get it changed
faster.
My advice to you would be to recognise the monkey inside you, and find
out *which* hierarchies that matter to you personally.
For example: If you don't compare yourself to film stars and photo
models, you'll feel better about the body shape (or lack of it) you
have. If you compare yourself to friends, try to focus on areas where
*you* are better than them (or at least some of them).
And remember, other people can't change *you*. You have to do this
yourself. You can get help to do it, but you have to look at yourself in
another way to be more satisfied with yourself.
Give yourself a mock job interview, where two common questions is to
define your strong and weak sides, but also what you have of relevant
qualifications, and so on. Or get someone to help you with that. It's
also practice for the real thing whenever you get it. Mixing this up
with other questions makes it easier to lower the relevance of those
questions to yourself.
And remember, weather you feel good or bad, you can reach out to AFP
when you need it.
With hope that this helps, or at least does no harm...
Pudde.
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273665 ] |
Mi, 24 Mai 2006 02:06 |
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8'FED wrote:
> Anastasia wrote:
>> The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:
>
>>> Being a bit posh today, aren't we miss? Or are you just
>>> channelling Dan Dare's rocketship?
>>
>> Lesley talked me into changing it. And boy, did it take
>> persuasion. She wore me down. She's relentless!
>
> It seems incomplete, somehow. There's something missing. I think
> it's a title: try adding the word "Empress" before it and see if
> that helps.
Oh, yes, that works nicely.
--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED "If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning." C. Aird, _His Burial Too_
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273666 ] |
Mi, 24 Mai 2006 02:08 |
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naomi wrote:
> May I say Mistress Doctor Anastasia ma'am, I'm very glad you
> decided to. You should be whoever you decide to be. You do know
> that I am your most obedient servant, no matter what name you choose.
Oh, dear, what does one pack for a power trip like that?
;-)
--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED "If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning." C. Aird, _His Burial Too_
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273667 ] |
Mi, 24 Mai 2006 02:12 |
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CCA wrote:
> Anastasia wrote:
>
>> 1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
>
> I've had low self-esteem for most of my life. About the only time I
> can remember it going up a notch in recent years was when I had my
> book published, and that didn't last very long.
Yeah . . . that's what provoked this. I was trying for serious and
meaningful, without being . . . .y'know, and this is what I got.
I get a boost every time I publish something, but it doesn't last. I spend a
lot of time wondering what have I done lately?
>> can it be fundamentally altered
>
> Hmmm...I believe it can be altered in small ways, but whether it's
> permanent or temporary alteration depends on the circumstances, and
> on the person.
Yeah. What I really wonder is whether I will ever be able to alter mine to
something in the "sane" range. I mean, is it going to be something I'm going
to have to work at for the rest of my life?
> I like the new name, by the way! :-)
Thank you.
--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED "If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning." C. Aird, _His Burial Too_
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273668 ] |
Mi, 24 Mai 2006 02:13 |
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Graycat wrote:
> The trouble with self esteem is that it means trusting
> _your_ _own_ opinion.
Aha. You speak truth. I never thought about it that way before.
I still don't know how to fix it, but it makes a little more sense now.
--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED "If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning." C. Aird, _His Burial Too_
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273669 ] |
Mi, 24 Mai 2006 02:17 |
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Eric Jarvis wrote:
> Arthur Hagen art [at] broomstick.com wrote in
> <e4v1ib$fkg$1 [at] tree.broomstick.com>:
>> Anastasia <house_damodred [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> What's the function of self-esteem?
>>
>> A poor man's substitute for esteem.
>>
>>> 1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
>>
>> You're pre-supposing that it is something that shouldn't be low.
Well, yes. Point taken.
> It shouldn't. It should be accurate.
>
> The exercise I was given by the first brain wrangler I saw was to
> try to notice when I was making an assumption about myself, and
> checking whether the assumption was correct.
I've sort of tried that, and it doesn't work for me. I'm fairly successful
in most of the ways that are important to me; the things I respect most in
others, I can admit I have in some measure, but I can't seem to work up a
decent sense of self-worth. Something's just not computing.
--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED "If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning." C. Aird, _His Burial Too_
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273670 ] |
Mi, 24 Mai 2006 02:24 |
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Pudde Fjord wrote:
> And remember, weather you feel good or bad, you can reach out to AFP
> when you need it.
>
> With hope that this helps, or at least does no harm...
Well, uh, although I have my own self-esteem issues, this was more of an
impersonal conversational gambit. I was hoping to spark a detailed
discussion of the human psyche that wouldn't hit religion for a while.
--
Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons, Bondage-happy predator,
Speaker-To-Students, AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion &
AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED "If you can't be a good example, you'll
just have to be a horrible warning." C. Aird, _His Burial Too_
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273673 ] |
Mi, 24 Mai 2006 02:35 |
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Louise Mac Mahon <louise [at] happybabysling.com> wrote:
>
> I sometimes wonder if too high self esteem or self esteem not
> grounded in a realistic assesment of the worth of one's
> time/opinions/relative importance could in fact be almost as bad a
> thing as low self esteem.
The higher you fly, the harder you fall.
There's always the Jante Law too:
1. You shall not think that you are special.
2. You shall not think that you are of the same standing as us.
3. You shall not think that you are smarter than us.
4. Don't fancy yourself as being better than us.
5. You shall not think that you know more than us.
6. You shall not think that you are more important than us.
7. You shall not think that you are good at anything.
8. You shall not laugh at us.
9. You shall not think that anyone cares about you.
10. You shall not think that you can teach us anything.
Regards,
--
*Art
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273687 ] |
Mi, 24 Mai 2006 04:19 |
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"David Chapman" wrote...
> From the Collected Witterings of Anastasia, volume 23:
>> What's the function of self-esteem?
>> 1. Has anyone had low self-esteem and successfully got over it?
>
> I don't have low self esteem, but if I did, I'd probably deserve it.
>
<snortle>
Okay. To avoid an OSF, here's another; that deserves it:
<snortle>
April.
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273690 ] |
Mi, 24 Mai 2006 04:37 |
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in article 1Wxcg.3976$921.1974 [at] newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net, Anastasia
at house_damodred [at] yahoo.com wrote on 22/05/2006 11:26 PM:
> The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:
>> In article <Jmucg.809$Sf2.658 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
>> "Anastasia" <house_damodred [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Anastasia, 4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
>> [...]
>>
>> Being a bit posh today, aren't we miss? Or are you just channelling
>> Dan Dare's rocketship?
>
>
> Lesley talked me into changing it. And boy, did it take persuasion. She wore
> me down. She's relentless!
Always willing to oblige.
--
Lesley Weston.
Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273699 ] |
Mi, 24 Mai 2006 05:38 |
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Anastasia wrote:
> naomi wrote:
>
>
>>May I say Mistress Doctor Anastasia ma'am, I'm very glad you
>> decided to. You should be whoever you decide to be. You do know
>>that I am your most obedient servant, no matter what name you choose.
>
>
> Oh, dear, what does one pack for a power trip like that?
>
> ;-)
Smith & Wesson?
-Rocky
--
O'Toole's Corollary: Murphy was an optimist.
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273701 ] |
Mi, 24 Mai 2006 05:53 |
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Anastasia wrote:
> Graycat wrote:
>
>
>>The trouble with self esteem is that it means trusting
>>_your_ _own_ opinion.
>
>
> Aha. You speak truth. I never thought about it that way before.
>
> I still don't know how to fix it, but it makes a little more sense now.
The perception of ones level of self-esteem is produced as an answer to
the (not necessarily verbal) question, "Am I valid? What's my personal
worth?"
The question itself is a kind of answer, isn't it?
I suggest that self-esteem is measured against the background of others.
If you feel less worthy than others, that's low self-esteem.
If you're an inflated ego-tripping ass, you have high self-esteem.
Isn't it better to just be competent and confident and thus avoid the
necessity to ask the question in the first place?
I guess I'm saying maybe the real answer is to think differently.
Will Rogers said the government is like your stomach: if it's working
right, you don't know you have one. Maybe what we call a "sense of
self-esteem" is like that: if it's working right, you never think to ask
the question.
-Rocky
--
O'Toole's Corollary: Murphy was an optimist.
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| Re: [I] Self-Esteem [message #273707 ] |
Mi, 24 Mai 2006 06:28 |
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Anastasia wrote:
> I get a boost every time I publish something, but it doesn't last. I spend a
> lot of time wondering what have I done lately?
A hell of a lot more than I have. You're simply not allowed to have a
self esteem problem! If _you're_ not sufficiently worthy, where does
that leave me?
Adrian, who knows what you're worth.
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